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Post by Conqueror of the Goths on Oct 15, 2008 7:58:56 GMT -5
Am I the only one dreading seeing the Rays in the World Series? I would love to see a Phillies (I hope)/Red Sox final.
1. Because of the history
2. Because they both play in outdoor stadiums, where the fall air will be crisp.
In L.A. it's freaking hot and you don't get pitchers blowing in their hands to warm up and Tampa plays in a damn dome.
The best part of fall baseball is the cold air and the players and fans trying to stay warm. It brings out what baseball is truly about imo.
Too bad we may not see that. So, I say, down with domed stadiums, first in Tampa and then here in Toronto.
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Post by Scarf Tot on Oct 15, 2008 8:34:20 GMT -5
I suppose Tampa doesn't add much in terms of atmosphere or history, but i am pretty impressed by their success and i find it refreshing that good scouting and youth is at this moment better than massive payrolls.
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Post by Conqueror of the Goths on Oct 15, 2008 8:54:25 GMT -5
I think Tampa really got there through massive suckage the past few years and a very good deal.
They had top overall picks essentially from their inception and for the amounts of hits they got they also have a lot of misses as well. The Garza for Young swap saved their season imo and signing Percival to calm a young bullpen is impressive. But they'll likely have to deal alot of that young star power shortly.
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Post by Acie on Oct 15, 2008 9:05:12 GMT -5
Tampa is this year's Colorado Rockies.
Plus with Lowell out, Ortiz with a bad wrist and knee, Drew with a bad back, Beckett trying to come back from injury the Sox never stood a chance.
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Post by doc on Oct 15, 2008 9:10:26 GMT -5
It ain't over yet ACIE ... have faith buddy.
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Post by Acie on Oct 15, 2008 9:13:52 GMT -5
True. The fact that I haven't been wearing my lucky Sox jersey the last three games could have something to do with it.
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Post by BasketBananaBoy on Oct 15, 2008 9:51:21 GMT -5
I think Tampa really got there through massive suckage the past few years and a very good deal. They had top overall picks essentially from their inception and for the amounts of hits they got they also have a lot of misses as well. The Garza for Young swap saved their season imo and signing Percival to calm a young bullpen is impressive. But they'll likely have to deal alot of that young star power shortly. Isn't that how you build a team? Through the draft? IMO, that's good scouting. All those years of being crap paid off. Look at the Lightning in the NHL, or now Arizona in the NFL - you build around young talent. You can't always buy a championship much like the Yankees, or can't afford to maintain a budget like the Red Sox, so the next best thing is to build from the farm system. What's so wrong about that? The Tampa front office has made some really shrewd moves - the Garza for Young deal was brilliant - the GM caught a lot of flak for it because Young was coming off a 100-RBI season for Garza, but the Rays front office recognized a glut of OF's in the system and addressed a weakness. They also got rid of Elijah Dukes who had tremendous talent, but question marks around his character. Then you add left hander David Price into the starting rotation mix next year and it's lights out in the AL East. Crawford's contract runs through for another 3-4 seasons Longoria signed an 8 year deal this season Pena is signed for another 3 seasons BJ Upton isn't scheduled to be a FA until after the 2012 season... and 1st overall pick from this year Tim Beckham is a 5-tool player, in the mold of BJ Upton... As a Jays fan, I'm jealous, we can't compete with that - their talent is just too much. And good for them..after so many years of futility, the Rays are finally seeing the fruits of their labour.
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Post by Conqueror of the Goths on Oct 15, 2008 10:00:23 GMT -5
I think the way to build a team is somewhere in the middle. Yeah, the Sox throw a shit load of money around, but look at the system.
Hanley Ramirez, the best shortstop in the game, was a Red Sox product, Jon Lester their best pitcher, Jacoby Ellsbury, Dustin Pedroia, Jonathan Papelbon and Jared Lowrie are all key cogs to that team and all were drafted in lower rounds than Tampa. Yes, the Sox have thrown stupid money at JD Drew and David Ortiz, Varitek and Dice K. But aside from Dice K, all of those guys are theoretically replaceable in that line up.
I think it's great that the Rays have built what they have, but making smart decisions and still winning consistently is the essence of a superb team and what I like to see. Throw enough darts and you'll eventually hit bullseye's. Great, you hit the bullseye. But have only 10 darts and hit 8 bullseyes, that's the mark of a marksman. (terrible analogy).
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Post by Acie on Oct 15, 2008 10:05:14 GMT -5
Ortiz was picked up off of the scrap heap after Minnesota released him.
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Post by Conqueror of the Goths on Oct 15, 2008 10:08:43 GMT -5
Exactly. The Yankees are way NOT to build a team circa 1996-2008. Just throwing money. But the BoSox are a perfect example imo. of how to build a team and consistently win.
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Post by BasketBananaBoy on Oct 15, 2008 10:17:50 GMT -5
I think the way to build a team is somewhere in the middle. Yeah, the Sox throw a shit load of money around, but look at the system. Hanley Ramirez, the best shortstop in the game, was a Red Sox product, Jon Lester their best pitcher, Jacoby Ellsbury, Dustin Pedroia, Jonathan Papelbon and Jared Lowrie are all key cogs to that team and all were drafted in lower rounds than Tampa. Yes, the Sox have thrown stupid money at JD Drew and David Ortiz, Varitek and Dice K. But aside from Dice K, all of those guys are theoretically replaceable in that line up. I think it's great that the Rays have built what they have, but making smart decisions and still winning consistently is the essence of a superb team and what I like to see. Throw enough darts and you'll eventually hit bullseye's. Great, you hit the bullseye. But have only 10 darts and hit 8 bullseyes, that's the mark of a marksman. (terrible analogy). Oh, Boston's system is great, but they have the money to maintain it. And they've been in business for how many years? A Century? They've also thrown huge money at the guys like Manny, Lowell, Johnny Damon, Keith Foulke...aside from Jose Canseco, Greg Vaughan and Vinny Castilla, the Rays haven't made a big splash in the FA market.. Did you expect them to win the whole thing in tehir first year? Arizona essentially bought a championship in 2001. Florida bought one in 1997. Even the Jays took 7 years before they made the playoffs. The Rays are in undoubtedly the toughest division in baseball, so for them to do what they've done this year is fantastic...it all takes time.
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Post by Conqueror of the Goths on Oct 15, 2008 10:43:42 GMT -5
I see your point hoops.
But the Rays tried to win it all early on as well. You mention those names and they were given ridiculous money. Hell, wasn't it Gerald Williams at one point seen as their saviour at the leadoff spot?
And again, huge money was spent by Boston, but were they key cogs to the teams success? Manny I would argue was. But Lowell last season was a throw in to accept the Beckett trade (or two years ago sorry), Johnny Damon helped them win their first 'ship, but Crisp replaced him last season and so did Ellsbury and Foulke never materialized.
The Rays are playing great and good for them. I just think they could've killed their fan base (almost in the process of doing it). They're in a great situation now, I still question their pitching staff though. Garza is good, Kaz can never stay healthy and Price while he looks good reminds me of Mark Prior awfully lot. And their bullpen, aside from Balfour will have some big question marks.
I do like that kid they have playing SS in the minors though.
Alot of this though, stems from my dislike, of Tampa.
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Post by Acie on Oct 17, 2008 2:41:05 GMT -5
What a fucking game.
That is all.
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Post by doc on Oct 17, 2008 7:50:54 GMT -5
WOW .... what a game indeed. I checked in during the 6th inning briefly and thought what a boring World Series with Philly vs. TB, but I couldn't be more wrong. What a comeback from the Sox and hopefully they can come back to win this thing.
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